Frequently Asked Questions

Free Estimates
Types of Vinyl Liner Pools
All about pool liners
Where to buy a pool
Sand, Rice Hulls, Pad or Other on the Bottom?
Gopher Guard
Surface Preparation
Putting my pool into the ground
Deep Ends
Decking
Heating
Pool Services
Pools and Droughts

Free Estimates

Yes, we give free estimates. 95% of the time we can give you a firm estimate on a pool installation, repair, or liner replacement after a detailed phone conversation, and perhaps a few pictures sent by you. In rare cases we will need to stop by and visit your pool.

Types of Vinyl Liner Pools

There are three common types of vinyl liner pools: Above-Ground Pools, Softside Pools, and Custom Vinyl Liner Pools. They are very different one from the other.

Above-Ground Pools
Don’t let the name fool you. Probably half of the “above-ground pools” in the Bay Area are either partially or fully in-ground. “Above-ground pools” is a long-outdated term for metal-sidewall, vinyl-liner pools that come in a fixed variety of sizes, in round or oval. The higher quality brands and models of above-ground pools should expect a lifetime of 50+ years, with a liner replacement needed every 15 years or so. 95% of our work is on these pools.

Softside Pools
Softside pools are a type of pool installed above ground that are essentially a giant bag of water with a few poles supporting them. Installation is very homeowner-friendly. Most softside pools are built to last only a couple of years, as the sun and wear quickly take a toll on them. They are usually sold with filtration units that are woefully inadequate. We can help install these pools for you, but since they are generally low-cost, temporary options, the price for installation can be very high when compared to the cost of pool itself.

Custom Vinyl Liner Pools
These hard-sided pools can be custom built to nearly any size or configuration. They are usually below ground, but not always. Wall materials can be wood, steel, concrete or others. The liners of these pool are very expensive, as each one has to be custom cut and welded in the factory, in order to fit the exact match for each pool. We do not install these pools, but from time to time have installed custom liners.

All About Pool Liners

As mentioned above, there are two principle liner types: above-ground and custom. All of the information below is about above-ground liners. There are many types and qualities of above-ground liners available. It is very important that you select wisely.

Liner Thickness
The most important factor is the thickness of the liner.

The biggest con-job in the industry is selling liners by the gauge instead of by the mil. A 20-mil liner means that the liner is 20 thousandths of an inch thick. A 20-gauge liner means absolutely nothing. Any thickness of liner can be sold as a 20-gauge liner. Always ask to know what the mil of the liner is, and get it in writing.

The next thing to check is if the thickness is consistent. Many 20 gauge liners that I have seen measure 13 mil on the side and 10-12 mil on the bottom. Why? Because you won't notice that they put thinner vinyl on the bottom and the liner will need replacing much sooner. This is very good for business but very bad for you.

Liners sold by the mil (Doughboy brand)
Doughboy only sells 20 and 25 mil liners. Both should last the same amount of time. 25 mil liners will be more puncture resistant, and 20 mil liners are less expensive and stretch in smoother on cooler days. All Doughboy liners are excellent quality.

Liners sold by the gauge (all others)
Swimline is by far the most popular liner manufacturer in the US, due to their low prices. Their standard liner is 20 guage, which is only 12-13 mil thick. This is sadly inadequate. I would not put a Swimline liner thinner than 35 gauge (18-19 mil) in my own pool. In a flat-bottom pool, most pool owners will be happy with a Swimline 35-40 gauge (20-21 mil) liner, or maybe 30 gauge (16-17 mil) with good wall and floor padding.

Overlap, Beaded, J-Hook Liners
Overlap liners are by far the most common. We stretch the liner over the top rail of the completed pool, and slowly lower the liner as tension from the water works out wrinkles. When the wrinkles on the bottom are worked out, and the water is close to the bottom of the pool wall, the top rail is removed, and the liner is installed using plastic coping, steel stabilizer rails, and then the top rails again. One advantage of an overlap liner is the amount of control that we have to work out wrinkles.

Beaded liners require a plastic receiver piece to be installed on the wall, below the top rail. The liner has a bead on the top edge, and the bead is inserted into the receiver. After centering the liner, we vacuum out all of the air between the wall and liner, and work out wrinkles at that point. Once we have minimized wrinkles the best possible we begin filling the pool. One major advantage of beaded liners is if you have a deck adjacent to or over the pool top rail, the rail will not need to be removed to do a liner replacement. Another advantage is the ability to have a consistent tile line if your liner pattern has one.

J-hook liners have a hook instead of a bead, and hang directly on the top of the wall. They are then installed the same as a beaded liner.

Plain Blue or Pattern
The choice between plain blue or pattern liners is mainly about personal preference. Pattern liners do have the advantage of hiding minor wrinkles and uncleaned debris on the bottom of the pool. Keep in mind that pattern liners with a tile line are almost always sold as beaded or J-hook liners only.

Expandable Liners
If your pool is not flat on the bottom, and has a deeper area, you will need an expandable liner. All expandable liners are overlap liners. If you purchase an expandable Doughboy liner, we will put extra stretch on the liner to get it to conform to the cut of your deep-end. This process requires a good deal of heat, so a warm, sunny day is usually required.

All other brands of liners that I am aware of invalidate their warranties if you stretch the liner in as required to remove wrinkles. They simply sell the liner with much higher walls, and expect us to flop the excess liner into the deep end, leaving a massive wrinkle problem. The truth is, this was required in the past when their liner seams were very poor quality, but now their seams are much stronger. We often are asked by pool owners to stretch in 35-40 gauge liners, and have not split a seam in decades. However, we cannot be held liable if a split occurs on a liner that explicitly says to not stretch it.

Where to Buy a Pool

We do not normally sell pools or equipment, but we can assist you in getting replacement liners, equipment, or even pools through local or online dealers. We install pools for all area pool dealers so we have no preference. We also will install pools purchased online. There is a big difference between the two. Local dealers usually cost a little more, sell better quality product, and back up what they sell. Internet dealers are buyer beware. Things are often not as advertised. Be especially wary of liners sold online (see All About Pool Liners).

Sand, Rice Hulls, Pad or Other on the Bottom?

Liner pools require protection under the liner from soil, rocks, roots etc. Here is a breakdown of the most commonly used materials:

Sand
Sand is far and away the most popular pool bottom choice nationwide, due mainly to its accessibility. Pool bottom sand needs to be clean and free from debris, pebbles, shells etc. Sand can be compacted and smoothed, but is prone to settling due to air pockets and settling of the soil beneath it. Once sand settles, a divot will appear in the liner, leading to cleaning problem and sometimes premature aging of the liner. Black & Black Pools used sand exclusively for over 20 years, until we were introduced to rice hulls. We never went back, and have had a number of customers that were used to sand call us after install to say how much they prefer the rice hulls.

Rice Hulls
We believe that rice hulls are far superior to sand. While sand has been used the most in the SFBA, rice hulls usage dominates the Sacramento Valley, where there is considerable rice production. Rice hulls (the skin of the kernel of rice), are fluffy. The best way to describe walking on a rice hull bottom is that it is somewhat like crushed carpet. There is always a little cushiony give. As such, the bottom is never perfectly smooth, but you get the added benefit of far less issues from pool or soil settling than you do with sand. We normally supply the rice hulls to the customer. Click here to see an image of rice hulls

Pool Pad
Over the past two decades, padding known as Gorilla Pad, Rhino pad, or their generic equivalents have gained popularity. They are non-woven geotextile fabrics, cut and sewed to the shape of your pool. They are similar to weed fabric, only much thicker and always non-woven. They will help protect the pool liner from rocks, plants, etc, that otherwise might rise up through the soil and puncture a liner. Pool padding however provides very little cushioning, and as such, should not be used except in conjunction with rice hulls or sand. Another issue with pool padding is that it only fits flat bottom pools, and will not contour into a deep end. When used with a deep-end pool, we cut it in a number of places so that the pad will lay down into the deep-end as smoothly as possible, but it will not provide 100% coverage. What is important is that the area where you step most, the shallow end and the pool perimeter, get the good padding coverage.

Roll Foam
Roll polyethylene foam was once popular as an added cushioning on top of rice hulls or sand. However, due to the popularity and low cost of Pool Pad, it is seldom used anymore. Like Pool Pad, it does not lay well in a deep end.

Provosil
Provosil is an organic powder made from processed volcanic silicate. Similar to rice hulls, it goes on light and fluffy, and compacts some over the years, but never as hard as sand. It is very popular in the San Joaquin Valley.

Our Recommendation
We use rice hulls on nearly all of our pools. We may combine it with other materials at times. For example, if the surface below is excessively rocky, we may want to add a layer of sand under the rice hulls. Rice hulls combined with a layer of padding on top creates the ultimate surface, combining liner protection and user comfort.

Gopher Guard

Do you have a gopher problem in your backyard? These destructive critters like to dig up under the liner of pools, costing you your liner. The two common processes to prevent gopher damage are wire mesh (often ineffective as gophers are known to gnaw wire to sharpen their teeth) and concrete (expensive). Over the past few decades Black & Black Pools has developed a proprietary process which so far has shown to be 100% effective. If you have a gopher problem, be sure to ask us about it.

Surface Preparation

Leveling and Cleaning
In order for us to install a pool above ground, we ask that you prepare an area for installation, assuring that it is level within 1-2 inches, and free of sod, trees, shrubs, weeds, grass, or large rocks.

Round Pools:
Please level an area 2’ wider than the size of your pool (e.g.: 20’ diameter on an 18’ diameter pool), essentially clearing a 12” perimiter around your pool.
Oval Pools:
Please level the ends the same as a round pool (12” perimeter) but clear and level the sides of the oval a total of 24” on each side. (E.g.: a 12’x24’ pool would need to be leveled 16’x26’)

NOTE: If you are unable to do the surface preparation, we can usually do it for an additional fee.

Soil Softening
We ask that you water the planned pool area very heavily for a few days before we begin installation. This will help us in the fine leveling process, as we adjust the pool to be ideally within +/- 0.125 inches. Often there are parts of the pool buried below ground level, sometimes very deep, and softening the soil can make the process run much smoother.

We like to have you water the pool area for a few days, usually best around dusk so the water penetrates the soil rather than evaporating, and then allow for a couple of days for the soil to dry on the surface so that it is not muddy when we arrive. If your pool is in a sunny area and the weather is hot, you may need to increase your watering. If your pool is in a shady area, and the ambient temperature is cooler, you can decrease the watering. Here are some general guidelines to follow.

Round Pools:
Water heavily 2 days before, and let the area dry out the day before we arrive.
Oval Pools:
Water heavily 3, 4, & 5 days before, and let the area dry out for 2 days before we arrive. The center and ends of the pool really only need a day or two of watering, so your focus should be on drenching the long sides of the pool area. In this area we are often digging as deep as 12” or more.

Putting my Pool into the Ground

It doesn't sound right, but above-ground pools can be installed above, partially in, or entirely below ground. Above-ground is inexpensive and very safe for small children. Many SFBA pool owners choose to put their pool halfway into the ground and put a wood deck around it. Below-level installations are gaining in popularity with either a wood or concrete deck.

We do not do any excavation, but can sometimes refer you to professionals with many years experience working with our pools.

If you put your pool partway into the ground, the best thing to do is leave an airspace between the pool and the soil, usually 1-2 feet. This allows the pool to breathe and is virtually the same as an above-ground installation.

If you choose to put your pool 3'+ into the ground, you need to think about the pressure of the surrounding soil on the pool. As long as you have water in the pool, you have no worries. But when it becomes time to replace a liner (usually around 15 years with quality liners), soil pressure against a pool wall can collapse a pool. To prevent collapse, either build a retaining wall around the pool, or fill the airspace with a lightweight concrete slurry. Consult with your pool dealer for advice or to find professionals who perform these tasks.

Deep Ends

Many pools can have a deep end dug into the pool extending the depth between 24” and 36”. This increases the cost due to excavation, additional installation time, and perhaps requires a higher quality liner. Consult carefully with your pool dealer regarding the size, shape, and depth of depends. Again, we do not do the excavating, but can sometimes refer professional, experienced excavators to you.

Decking

Often pool owners will want a wood deck around an above-ground pool or a concrete or wood deck around a pool installed into the ground. We do no decking, but you can find competent decking professionals locally, and we can give them some tips on working with pools. The main thing that you need to remember is that someday you will need to replace a liner or a plumbing fitting, and the deck needs to be designed with that in mind.

Heating

There are five ways to heat your water: bubble cover, sidewall insulation, solar, gas and electric. Covers and insulation provide "green" heating, whereas solar, gas and electric do consume energy (solar requires energy to pump the water between the pool and the solar panels). Except in extenuating circumstances, always start with a bubble cover. This has shown in the Bay Area to heat your pool 5-7 degrees.

The next logical step is to insulate the sidewalls with a product such as Pool Parka (purchased directly from Black & Black Pools). Parka is a rigid foam that when added to a bubble cover will warm your pool an additional 12-15 degrees. Many SFBA customers find this adequate heating, extending months to the swimming season. During the hottest months, inland valley pool owners may remove their bubble cover to allow the pool to cool. Beware of thin "roll foam" sold as sidewall insulation. It has very little insulative value and has shown to cause rusting, while rigid foam prevents and retards rusting.

Solar heating is the next best step, is relatively inexpensive, and only consumes electricity to pump the water through the solar panels. Temperature gain varies, but this often meets seasonal swimmer’s needs.

Gas and electric heating is costly to purchase, install and use, but is the only real solution for year round swimming. By all means if you intend to heat with gas or electric, insulate and cover your pool well.

Pool Services

We do not service (clean) pools, nor do we work on pumps or filters. We only do one thing, and we do it well. However, we do at times come into contact with others who clean, service, patch etc. Send us an email and we will try help you find someone that can take care of you.

Pools and Droughts

Save water, build a pool! Seriously. Most people can fill a pool with about two months of water that they would have used to water lawn on the same spot. Water lost to evaporation and splash is insignificant compared to water used on landscaping, and can be minimized with a pool cover. So do California a favor, pull up your lawn, put in a pool, and pull that brick out of your toilet.

Disclaimer

Any of the advice above could be completely wrong for you and your pool, if you don't understand what you are doing, if you don't have the skills to do things right, or if your pool or your situation differ from the theoretical conditions addressed in manufacturer’s instructions or the above advice. Please do not undertake any work yourself unless you are confident enough to risk ruining your pool, if you should misunderstand something, or make a mistake. We guarantee our work, but take no responsibility for the results of your undertaking work on your own. Please consult an expert if you are not absolutely sure of what you are doing.